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Questioning Canon
So generally, I'm all for sticking to canon when it comes to potion, spell and creature lore etc. I may embellish, I may invent extras, but I will not fundamentally change or ignore what is there. For example, J.K says silver doesn't affect werewolves (other than being essential to seal the initial bite and prevent death). So in my HP fiction, silver doesn't affect werewolves. Even if it would have been convenient to my plot.
I've now come across a sticking point. Googling and wikia didn't satisfy me, so I went and got the books out for this one. I still wasn't happy with the answer!
So basically, I'm talking viewing other people's memories. Whether through Legilimency or by using a Pensieve. I'm just going to ignore the fact that, realistically, memories don't stay crisp, clear and precise over time, and do not always run chronologically.
In my opinion, memories should logically be viewed in first person. If we are viewing Harry's memory of his mother's murder, we would see it through the bars of his cot. We would not see Harry's face (unless there happened to be a mirror nearby) as Harry is unaware of what he looked like at that exact moment in time. It's his memory, therefore his perspective. We would be looking through his eyes. We would see what he saw and feel what he felt. Also, if we were to try and go downstairs in Harry's memory, we would not be able to, because he didn't.
Canon says otherwise. The first scene I reviewed is when Harry casts a Protego during Occlumency lessons and accidentally enters Snape's mind. It is described that Harry sees a 'small, dark-haired boy', a 'greasy-haired teenager' and a 'scrawny boy'. Okay, so definitely third person view.
That I can deal with. Not so much with the next bit.
Harry sneaks a peak into Snape's Pensieve, viewing Snape's memories. He is standing in front of Snape, who's got his nose stuck firmly in his exam paper. At this point, Harry wanders off, examining the expressions of students. Snape is not only not looking up throughout the exam, he wouldn't be able to see those expressions even if he did look up. Harry can even read what James is doodling on a spare bit of parchment. When they leave the exam, Harry walks between Snape and the Marauders to eavesdrop. They are discussing Remus's furry little problem, so they must be out of earshot of people in the memory, including Snape. So if Snape couldn't hear them, how the hell can Snape's memory show Harry what they were saying?!
I haven't got access to all of my books right now, so this is just based on the relevant scenes I remember in OotP. I can admit it was nice for Harry to get a proper look at James and Sirius when they were his age. It also gave us a chance to understand Severus a bit better, by seeing for ourselves that he was treated viciously out of sheer boredom.
However, I feel really sad to be restricted to a third person narrative with unrestricted detail when writing memories in fandom. By letting the viewer move freely around the memory, you take away the potential insight they could gain by seeing the memory through the owner's eyes. The viewer is missing out on all the smells, emotions and thoughts linked to that memory.
Does anyone have any examples from canon with a different take on viewing a memory?
Do you think that J.K missed a trick here, or that her chosen style added to the story?Or maybe it was just a lazy plot device that she didn't spend enough time thinking through.
I'm interested to read what you think =)
ETA:
A few comments have made me realise that I was remiss in not looking up Harry's first experience of a Pensieve and the explanation that came with it.
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torino10154 reminded me:
smirkingcat made an interesting observation which expanded on this:
I've now come across a sticking point. Googling and wikia didn't satisfy me, so I went and got the books out for this one. I still wasn't happy with the answer!
So basically, I'm talking viewing other people's memories. Whether through Legilimency or by using a Pensieve. I'm just going to ignore the fact that, realistically, memories don't stay crisp, clear and precise over time, and do not always run chronologically.
In my opinion, memories should logically be viewed in first person. If we are viewing Harry's memory of his mother's murder, we would see it through the bars of his cot. We would not see Harry's face (unless there happened to be a mirror nearby) as Harry is unaware of what he looked like at that exact moment in time. It's his memory, therefore his perspective. We would be looking through his eyes. We would see what he saw and feel what he felt. Also, if we were to try and go downstairs in Harry's memory, we would not be able to, because he didn't.
Canon says otherwise. The first scene I reviewed is when Harry casts a Protego during Occlumency lessons and accidentally enters Snape's mind. It is described that Harry sees a 'small, dark-haired boy', a 'greasy-haired teenager' and a 'scrawny boy'. Okay, so definitely third person view.
That I can deal with. Not so much with the next bit.
Harry sneaks a peak into Snape's Pensieve, viewing Snape's memories. He is standing in front of Snape, who's got his nose stuck firmly in his exam paper. At this point, Harry wanders off, examining the expressions of students. Snape is not only not looking up throughout the exam, he wouldn't be able to see those expressions even if he did look up. Harry can even read what James is doodling on a spare bit of parchment. When they leave the exam, Harry walks between Snape and the Marauders to eavesdrop. They are discussing Remus's furry little problem, so they must be out of earshot of people in the memory, including Snape. So if Snape couldn't hear them, how the hell can Snape's memory show Harry what they were saying?!
I haven't got access to all of my books right now, so this is just based on the relevant scenes I remember in OotP. I can admit it was nice for Harry to get a proper look at James and Sirius when they were his age. It also gave us a chance to understand Severus a bit better, by seeing for ourselves that he was treated viciously out of sheer boredom.
However, I feel really sad to be restricted to a third person narrative with unrestricted detail when writing memories in fandom. By letting the viewer move freely around the memory, you take away the potential insight they could gain by seeing the memory through the owner's eyes. The viewer is missing out on all the smells, emotions and thoughts linked to that memory.
Does anyone have any examples from canon with a different take on viewing a memory?
Do you think that J.K missed a trick here, or that her chosen style added to the story?
I'm interested to read what you think =)
ETA:
A few comments have made me realise that I was remiss in not looking up Harry's first experience of a Pensieve and the explanation that came with it.
torino10154 reminded me:Strictly speaking, the cool thing about viewing memories in a Pensieve (as opposed to during Legilimency) is that they are 3rd person, objective, and without bias.
smirkingcat made an interesting observation which expanded on this:because we know we see way more than we realise, and we also hear more than we know, but our brains filter out what we deem important, so maybe we can say like the magic expands the field of awareness and the magic of the pensive enhances that and show all that the wizard missed...
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If the memory is taking place via Legilimency, then it should be the person's actual memory, which is their 1st person perspective...unless it too is somewhat of a movie reel playing out in front of the person. That's the trouble with magic. It doesn't always work the way "logic" would dictate.
As for hearing things Snape couldn't have possible heard, that isn't logical and I do have more difficulty understanding how it's possible. It seems like they should almost just have their mouths move but he can't understand them.
You might also look at what Snape says about Legilimency and Occlumency, because he does talk about what can be gleaned that way, which might help you. I believe it comes down to using your emotions to get you to think of the relevant memory, not that the memories themselves show emotions.
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but i agree with you that the legilimens is a cheap way to show the reader some backstory which other way wouldnt have been there- because how?
all the ppl were so busy with telling harry how awesome his father was?
i can live with it and since as a writer i bend the canon as much as i like and do what i want i dont really concern myself that much with cannon- but the question itself is rather interesting
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